Thursday, May 31, 2012

Slow News Day?

I've had so much I wanted to blog about, but with time constraints I've have to keep my blogging to a minimum. So it isn't a slows news day for me, but apparently it was for  You'll see what I mean. Here's the headline...
Rodriguez learns of family inbreeding
Inbreeding? Really? So let's see...
Michelle Rodriguez 
Avatar star Michelle Rodriguez has been left stunned after learning her father's family regularly practiced inbreeding in a bid to maintain good genes.
Emphasis mine.

The 33 year old recently traced her family history for U.S. TV show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. and researchers unearthed information about her Puerto Rican ancestors that she would have preferred not to have known - 
What? What could it be?!?

her paternal great-great-grandparents were first cousins.

 Huh? That's it?

According to genealogists, incestuous relationships were commonplace in certain territories as a way to ensure desirable characteristics, like lighter skin tones, were carried on to future generations.

The shocked actress says, "I guess my father's side loved to do it in the family."
Uh, there are many happy relationships between first cousins right now, many with healthy children. That a media outlet would treat this as some sort of shocking matter is insulting. What's next? Does she have, gasp, a gay uncle??? Half siblings? Sheesh. There are no doubt famous feature film actors whose parents are first cousins, probably a few whose genetic parents are even closer that that. Drop the prejudice towards consanguinamory and do some more research.
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Wednesday, May 30, 2012

Play About Consanguinamory to Run in New York

The show benefits RAINN and is produced by Daydream Theatre Company. Here's the description...
Accidental Incest: Someone for Everyone” is a sick and disturbing comedy about two people who find romance in this crazy world. The problem is that they are indeed brother and sister! So they are left with a question: Be miserable or be with the one person who truly gets who you are.”
Why is that "sick and disturbing?" This sort of thing has happened in life before, especially due to Genetic Sexual Attraction. I think it is beautiful. There is enough hate in the world. When adults find love together, why should that be disturbing? RAINN fights abuse. Abuse is disturbing, not love.

At the link, the writer/director, Lenny Schwartz, answers some questions...

What do you hope the audience receives from the experience of seeing this show?

Lenny: Acceptance of themselves…no matter what size shape, color, or sexual orientation. and that’s the truth.

That was something my dad always believed in. Be happy with who you are. He was so excited when he heard I was doing this show…then two weeks after I told him he passed on.

My dad always liked when I wrote comedies. He also was accepting of everyone…and made sure that no matter who was in the room that they were worthwhile human beings no matter who they were or what they may have done in their their lives.

This one is for you, dad.

Show Times:
Friday 6/15/12 – 4:00pm
Saturday 6/16/12 – 6:00pm
Sunday 6/17/12 – 8:00pm

Planet Connections runs from May 30 – June 24 at The Bleecker Street Theater located at 45 Bleecker Street, New York, NY. To purchase tickets to this or any of the shows click here.
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Tuesday, May 29, 2012

Gregg Strauss on Equality in Polygamy

There is much to clear off the desk here, and here's another tidbit. Back at the end of April, Lawrence Solum called attention to something from Gregg Strauss, "Is Polygamy Inherently Unequal?" (Ethics April 2012, Vol. 122, No. 3: 516-544)...
This article begins the task of assessing polygamy as a moral ideal. The structure of traditional polygamy, in which only one central spouse may marry multiple partners, necessarily yields two inequalities. The central spouse has greater rights and expectations within each marriage and greater control over the wider family. However, two alternative structures for polygamy can remove these inequalities. In polyfidelity, each spouse marries every other spouse in the family. In “molecular” polygamy, any spouses may marry a new spouse outside the family. These new models of polygamy face additional difficulties, but they can be egalitarian in principle.
The position of this blog is that there is often power differential in many monogamous relationships, but that as long as everyone is aware and consenting to the marriage, they should be free to enter into such a marriage. Some people actively seek to be the submissive in a power differential. With polygamy, the participants should determine the structure. If that works out so that one person is married to two or three people, none of whom are married to each other, so be it. If it means they are all married to each other, so be it. It should be up to them. The equality is in access to marriage for all adults, including LGBT people, including polyamorous people.
— — —

Supporting Gay Marriage, Opposing Polyamory?

Some people support the rights of (some) gay and lesbian couples to enter into legally monogamous marriages, but oppose relationship rights for the polyamorous, or the polygamous freedom to marry. Or, they oppose relationship rights or the freedom to marry for those in consanguineous relationships.

This should not be surprising, given human history. Some people did and do fight discrimination against women, but are fine with discrimination against racial minorities. Or they have fought discrimination against racial minorities but support discrimination against women, or discrimination against LGBT people, or people with disabilities... on and on it goes. Some people have different biases and prejudices, or a group they treat like a punching bag while supporting another group that is being discriminated against. Some people have no hesitation in turning around and using the same arguments in denying rights to others that were used to deny rights to them.

Unfortunately, bigotry and prejudice are sometimes enshrined in law, and laws can be arbitrary... some country or division thereof might pass a law limiting marriages to Saturdays in June, if that is what the people in power want. So laws have allowed interracial marriage, but banned marriage for gay couples and lesbian couples, or have allowed gay couples to marry, but banned polygamous marriages. In some countries, polygyny is accepted, but gays and lesbians can’t even come out of the closet. In the US, some states allow (mostly heterosexual, so far) first cousins to marry, but some states don't, and virtually none allow any relatives closer than that to marry.

When someone asks, “Is it bigotry to advocate gay marriage, but oppose polyamory?” The answer is: yes, it is. It is one thing, and a valid one, to explain that gay or lesbian monogamy is not the same thing as any version of polyamory. It is another thing, and bigotry at that, to throw polyamorous people under the bus; that one is not polyamorous does not mean it is okay to stand by while the polyamorous are discriminated against, and it certainly isn’t okay to join in and denounce polyamory as a legitimate sphere of relationships.

“I’m not polyamorous.”
“I think polyamory is disgusting.”
“Polymory goes against tradition.”
“My religion is against it.”
“It’s not natural.”
“It hurts children.”
“It hurts women.”
“It is abusive.”
“It spreads STIs.”
“What’s next?”
“Our laws are set up for monogamy.”

Those are essentially same arguments that were used against allowing monogamous gays and lesbians to marry.
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Monday, May 28, 2012

Consanguineous Marriages Are Very Common in Some Cultures

Ammarah Fayyaz, Director Human Resource, MSF Pakistan, writes about how common consanguineous marriages are, and is a little concerned...

The consanguineous marriage has it well developed historical background and is especially prevalent in Asia and Middle East. There have been special reason for it in the past but now they seem to be less important i.e. the perseverance of wealth, the low education status of the mother, traditions, vows of the elderly, family structure and fear of losing the money on wedding the daughter.  In present times, the only thing that has come to light after studying the different population groups of Asia is that People don’t want to marry out of the caste as it, according to them will cause them lose their social status. Sometimes people also fear the external people about their habits and good reputation thus they marry their girls in the family always.

The very close marriages i.e. parents with children and brother with sister are not allowed in any religion, consanguineous marriages have been prohibited in some cultures and allowed in some but In Islam, there is obviously no such restriction because The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) also married his cousin, Zainab Bint-e-Jahash.

Sometimes the Pakistanis settled in other countries like England and America are more prone to the consanguineous marriages because of the immigration policies of these countries. Some presume that local Muslim community there is so small and the people have no way out except for marrying the same generation women.
So the leaders in Asia must address this. The health education can be of immense help. Most important time of learning about these issues is while adolescence, so the school programs and event must be organized. Teachers must tell the students importance of preventing consanguineous marriages. Parents must avoid the close association of their children with sister, brother or cousins during the adolescence.
And if ever people have to marry their cousins, they must have pre-marriage genetic counseling or counseling when the marriage has been consummated.

Racist jokes ignored, does anyone see a health problem in these communities? Siblings and cousins experiment. Some go on to do more, some to be together as life partners. People need to get over it and  worry about their own lives.

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Sunday, May 27, 2012

Avoid Toxic People

Time for some desk clearing. Over a month ago, picked up this apparent Genetic Sexual Attraction story. Vikki White reported.

THE bride posed proudly on her big day with the groom on one side and long-lost dad on the other.

But seven years later wife Jane left her husband...for her FATHER.

Now the 36-year-old is riddled with shame over their incestuous affair.
Ideally, she should have held off on getting married in the first place, but hindsight is a convenient thing to have.

But she confesses she couldn’t stop ­herself falling madly in love with her dad, now 56, and having sex with him for two-and-a-half years.

Britain will be shocked by Jane’s story but she has decided to speak out in a bid to help others who might find themselves in a similar disturbing situation – and warn them not to get involved.
If people are free to be together, there is no reason, other than personal beliefs, they shouldn't get together if it is what they want.

Wiping away tears, she said: “Before this happened, if someone had said to me they were in this type of relationship, I would have said they were sickos.
That is not uncommon.
"After I had sex with my father I knew I was totally in love because it had never been like that before. It was amazing. I had found my soulmate at last.”
 That isn't uncommon, either.
“My dad worshipped me and it was the best relationship I had ever had.

“I would get butterflies before I saw him because I was so excited. We were just like any other couple, apart from the fact he was my father.”
Sounds great, until...

But the incestuous relationship grew sour. Jane said: “My father began ­hitting me in front of my four kids.
“He gave up his job and was sponging off me. He was drinking heavily."
As with any other relationship, people experiencing GSA can have problems such as substance abuse and being violent. It is the violence and substance abuse that should be of concern, not consensual sex.
Jane’s father began to visit her again and they continued to sleep together until the middle of 2010.

She said: “It finished after my dad punched me in the face.”
He should have never had the chance to hit her again.

I don't encourage cheating, and if anyone assaults you, they should never be given another chance to do it again. Unfortunately, the pull of Genetic Sexual Attraction can be overpowering. It shouldn't be a problem when people are kind to each other and not cheating on anyone... just like with any other relationship between adults. Due to anti-incest laws in some places that criminalize consensual sex between adults, it is harder for victims of abuse to get the help they need, for fear of self-incrimination.
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Friday, May 25, 2012

New Relationship Energy in an Established Relationship?

There's a blog called, simply enough Gay Polyamory Blog. As I've said before, even if a polyamorous "V" is comprised entirely of heterosexuals, such as a MFM or FMF triad, and all dating/sex event are monogamous, the two people of the same gender (at the ends of the "V") are metamours, involved with each other by proxy through their shared lover. So all polyamorous relationships involve some form of same-gender relationship (many are more direct than the metamour relationship), and that is one reason why polyamory should be included in discussions about LGBT rights, even though many LGBT relationships are monogamous.

This entry at GPB is The "Honeymoon Phase."

My partner and I recently realized (via poly wonderfulness) there is a great opportunity for a “honeymoon phase” when we date other people and we want some of that with each other. I believe many can attest to elements of that phase being wonderful and something that should never be lost.

In that, we decided to try to look at our relationship as new again. While we love many aspects of our 3.5 year relationship – stability, comfort, etc. we are trying on a new perspective. The first step was to recreate our first date. This looked like not only planning to go on a date in the same location as our first date, but pretending we just met. Beforehand we started texting each other all those things new people text each other – cute little innuendoes, pics, etc. 

Needless to say, it was fun! We asked each other all the typical questions – where are you from, what do you do for work, what do you do for fun, what type of music do you like, etc. We not only learned some new things about each other and how things have changed since we met, but also how much we have in common and how many similar interests we have.
 Something worth trying, no?
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Thursday, May 24, 2012

Male Howard Stern Caller Recounts Encounter With Father

I haven't heard much of Howard Stern's show in a long time.

In this clip, he takes a call from a man who says he had sex with his father. Obviously, this is Not Safe For Work.

I do recall Stern having a man in his studio who described having sex with his sister. He was in disguise, because video from the radio show was recorded to be shown on a cable television show.
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Wednesday, May 23, 2012

Genetic Sexual Attraction STILL in the News

The book(less) tour continued, at least virtually, for the women who took over the original Genetic Sexual Attraction forums. Here's my most recent previous entry on this. had an article by Olivia Fleming...
A woman who had an 'inappropriate' relationship with her estranged biological father has launched a counseling website dedicated to the relatively unknown phenomenon called genetic sexual attraction (GSA).
To be accurate, she started a blog at URL "A", then added forums, behind a paywall. She then shut down a long (long before she was involved) established free forum, found at URL "B," appropriating the content from those free forums for her pay forum. Finally, the appropriated URL B. So, if someone had been familiar with URL B and had participated or at least found help by reading the free forums there, and they came back to them after being away a while, they'd find a redesigned site with forums they'd have to pay to see.

Meanwhile, veterans of the original forums have started another free forum here:

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Even Equality Foes Admit Constitutionality of Equality

Lorenzo wrote on his blog about constitutional law and the same-gender and polygamous freedoms to marry. Lorenzo objects to marriage equality on religious grounds, but admits that the US constitution supports both the same-gender freedom to marry and the polygamous freedom to marry. His "solution" to this "problem" is...
to simply take government out of the marriage business.  Yes, it’s a business.  I would then restore those powers to the various religious organizations.  At this point, if a Church refuses to participate in SSM or polygamy, it is their right as a private religious group to do so.
But he doesn't define what would qualify as a "religious organization" when it comes to being able to execute those powers, nor how or if government programs and employers would determine spousal benefits and rights, how hospitals and other organizations would determine next of kin, etc. I know many people say "get government out of marriage," but if that is done, equality and rights must still be addressed. Whatever happens, we can't accept that some people are treated as second class citizens because of their love for each other, or their status (or lack of it) with a religious organization.

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Tuesday, May 22, 2012

Ghana Continues to Prosecute Over Consensual Sex

And thankfully, journalists keep letting us know about this. Like too many other countries, Ghana still prosecutes consenting adults for having sex with each other. And, in this case, they prosecute others who simply knew.

A Cape Coast circuit court yesterday convicted and jailed a middle-aged woman, Adjoa Francisca, for consenting to a conjugal relationship between her two biological children, Kofi Mensah, and Ama Essumanba, 19, which has produced a baby.

Adjoa Francisca is said to have taken a dowry of GH¢40 from her son, Mensah, a 22-year-old driver at Abaka in the Abura-Asebu-Kwamankese (AAK) District of the Central Region to enable him to marry his sister.

So what is the problem?

The woman pleaded guilty when she appeared before the court presided over by Florence Kai Otoo and was subsequently jailed seven years for aiding and abetting incestuous behaviour.

Seven years. Seven years in jail because consenting adults were having sex.

— — —

Genetic Sexual Attraction in the News Again

You'd think someone was on a book tour. On the heels of turning a well-established Genetic Sexual Attraction forum into a personal, paid-subscription project, Julie and Carly, who recently appeared on Dr. Drew's television show, are now featured by ABC news. The story is by Susan Donaldson James. By the way, I recommend anyone dealing with Genetic Sexual Attraction check out this website, featuring free discussion forums that aren't sex-negative. It is run by people who were experienced with the old forum and have a wealth of good advice.

Julie DeNeen was raised by her biological mother and a step-father who adopted her after DeNeen's birth father relinquished his legal rights. But she yearned for the father she never knew, wondering why he abandoned her.

"I had no picture and no contact with my biological father," said DeNeen, now 31 and married with three children in Clinton, Conn. "I hardly knew he existed."
That would make her stepfather her sociological father.
DeNeen said she felt like she was regressing back to childhood, falling in love and looking to her dad as a hero. "I felt a lot of need for intimacy," she said. "The lines were so blurry."

But she makes it clear that she never had sexual intercourse with her father, even though the relationship was "very inappropriate." And like others who experience GSA, she crossed physical boundaries that were "embarrassing, confusing, amazing and overwhelming,"
Some people are not confused, nor embarrassed, by their mutual love and attraction. They shouldn't be persecuted by the law, or bullies, and certainly not other people who have experienced GSA.

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Monday, May 21, 2012

HuPo Poll on Polyamory and Asexuality

A poll at asked, "Should Groups Like Asexuals and the Polyamorous Be Included Under the Queer Umbrella?"

Our question this week was inspired by a recent HuffPost Gay Voices blog entitled "Does Asexuality Fall Under the Queer Umbrella?" by Allison Hope.
In the blog Hope writes:

Although asexuality denotes the absence of sexuality, potentially differentiating it from the more visible sexual minorities (at least in terms of society's commonly held beliefs about them), in recent years the queer umbrella has extended to include not just sexual orientations but gender identities, as well, and could very well embrace another enclave. If you look at the religious root of homophobia, the belief that what cannot procreate is evil, and consider that asexuals by definition are not in the business of making babies, then you might agree that in that respect alone they could easily hop on the queer bandwagon.
I say any consensual sexuality, sexual orientation, or gender identity that is persecuted, discriminated against, criminalized, or presented as not being the norm or dominant (so to speak) should be included under "queer." We need to stand up for the rights of all adults to be who they are and love the consenting adults they love.
— — —

Page Added on Polyamory and Polygamy

I've added a page, Polyamory and Polygamy, to help clear up some misunderstandings. It is intended to be very basic, but I'm always open to suggestions for enhancements.
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Sunday, May 20, 2012

Polyamory on

Issues related to relationship rights and full marriage equality pop up from time to time over at If you are a mother or plan to be, it might be a good idea to join up over there to join the discussions. This thread is "DH and I want a polygamous/polyamory relationship with another woman."

Anonymous wrote...
So DH has finally decided that I could get a girlfriend. I've been bisexual my whole life, so when we got married and he told me he wouldn't be comfortable with me being with another woman, I was upset, but respected his wishes. Well, I've come out to him that this is something I really want, and would make me really happy. He agreed that it would be "hot" to see me with another girl, but has a lot of ground rules that I totally agree and am going to follow. She would be my love, someone I'm emotionally and sexually attracted to, and if she was someone really special, she could join in on our relationship with my DH. No, this wouldn't just be a threesome thing, it would be a type of polygamous relationship (which I have tried to search what the correct term would be for this type of relationship, but no success lol).

We are trying dating sites, but it's so hard to find anyone around here, seeing as this ideal does not seem very common in the world, let alone our area. Does anyone else have a relationship like this? Has it been successful? I wish I could find someone in person, but we hardly drink, and are not into the whole bar/club scene.

Oh, and we are happily married, this isn't some sort of way to spice up our marriage or anything, it's something that we want, that just feels right :)
There are many different ways polyamory is expressed. This is just one way.

Responses I saw when I accessed the thread were mainly supportive.

— — —

Friday, May 18, 2012

Genetic Sexual Attraction in Television Dramas

A couple of weeks back, "Law & Order: SVU"  (Episode #13-20) had another Genetic Sexual Attraction plotline, only not really. Don't read this link if you are still trying to avoid spoilers. Allison Leotta recaps the episode.

There really is a phenomenon called “Genetic Sexual Attraction,” where related family members who grew up apart fall for each other when they meet. The theory is that you tend to be attracted to people who resemble you, and who resembles you more than good old dad?
This wasn't the first time GSA was a topic in the series. I can think of two times in the past off of the top of my head, though the portrayal was negative and I don't know if the term was actually used.  I would love to see SVU do balanced episode on GSA depicting a happy relationship in which the participants are not underage or cheating. Since New Jersey has no laws against consensual adult consanguinamory, perhaps it could be adult siblings who live together in New Jersey but work in NYC? The could be special victims getting blackmailed by someone in NYC who threatens to ruin their careers by outing them? If the writers want to reduce the controversy they could make the siblings infertile... maybe he has had a vasectomy, or she has had her ovaries removed or tubal ligation or whatever. Or maybe it could be same-gender siblings.

Anyway, their backstory could be that they were not raised together, were reunited in their early twenties, and have been happy together ever since. Or maybe they were reunited at a later age, after one or both of them went through a divorce, and a jealous ex is the one blackmailing them. It could be a chance for the main characters of the series to talk about the issues, mulling over the usual Discredited Arguments against consanguinamory and why they don't hold up.
— — —

Thursday, May 17, 2012

More Coverage of Bittles

We've noticed news media coverage of professor Alan Bittles before. Here's some more, this time from Rhianna King at

A Perth-based researcher has called for an end to the stigma surrounding marriage between cousins, after uncovering evidence that the health risks have been greatly exaggerated.

Murdoch University adjunct professor Alan Bittles has shed new light on the consequences of intra-familial marriages, which he says are on the rise in Australia due to increased migration.

This statistic is interesting...

— — —

We Get Letters and Threats

Comments continue to pour in on this entry about a case of Genetic Sexual Attraction. Many comments are from haters who are bent on stopping consenting adults they don't even know from loving each other as they desire. However, they are apparently unable to provide a good excuse to hide their hate behind; they can't provide a reason love between consenting adults should be criminalized.

Here's a comment of note...

Anonymous May 17, 2012 8:03 AM

marriage equality have you been watching too much of incestous porn lately? I bet your hard drive is filled with such matter. I must ask the police to investigate

Ask the police to investigate what? An American using his First Amendment right to express a political opinion that CONSENTING ADULTS should be free to be together? I think the police have more important things to do than take orders from a nutcase.

Genetic Sexual Attraction has NOTHING to do with incestuous porn. And notice that this blog does not promote porn of any sort. I don't link to porn sites in that list on the right, I don't publish or republish porn here or anywhere else. In the context of this blog's subject of civil rights, have mentioned some videos that claim to depict consenting adults who are closely related. I have mentioned a site of written erotica at least once. That's about it.

If Anonymous is implying I am interested in the exploitation of minors, I am most definitely not and I have no interest in any media that depicts that, other than my interest that abusers of minors be locked up for a very long time.

I have made it clear over and over again that this blog is about consenting adults.

— — —

Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Deal, No Contest Plea in Possible GSA Case

Updating this story about an apparent case of Genetic Sexual Attraction, Kerana Todorov of reports...

A woman charged with having sex with her teenage son pleaded no contest Tuesday to incest and other felonies in Napa County Superior Court.

Mistie Atkinson, 32, pleaded “no contest” to incest, oral copulation with someone under the age of 18, sending harmful matter and contact with a minor for sexual offense against her biological son, a Napa resident, between October and March.

The "harmful material" consisted of pics and videos. Just about every 16 year-old boy has been "harmed" by viewing such media. (I'm not excusing the production of such media when it includes minors.)
Under the plea deal, Atkinson may be sentenced to four years and eight months in state prison for the crimes against her son who lived with his father, according to court records. With time credit for good behavior, she may be out of prison in two years and four months.
 Would a man have been given the same deal?
The woman, who does not have custody of her son, had left the boy when he was 2 years old, court filings indicate.
Still nothing about whether or not the man who impregnated her when she was 15 or so was ever held criminally liable for doing so. If having sex with 16 year-old is criminal, then having sex with different 16 or 15 year-old has to be too, righ.

Again, I'd like to know if there is any indication that she is a predator in general, or if this is the only thing like this she has done, prompted by GSA.
— — —

Tuesday, May 15, 2012

Full Marriage Equality Means Marriage For All

A limited same-gender freedom to marry is not full marriage equality. It is part of full marriage equality. Full marriage equality means that an adult, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, religion, or any other personal characteristics or circumstances of birth, can marry any consenting adults, without discrimination.

There are people in loving relationships, living as spouses, who can’t get married as long as gays and lesbians are banned from marriage, the polyamorous are banned from marriage, or the consanguinamorous are banned from marriage.

Letting them marry won’t hurt anyone else’s marriage; rather, it will make marriage more relevant in today’s world.

Right now, gays and lesbians can marry in some countries and some US states, but there are some states that, won't even recognize their marriages, let alone marry gays and lesbians. Some of these families include children whose parents want to get married, and people who say they want more children raised in marriage won't let them marry. What kind of sense is that?

— — —

Genetic Sexual Attraction on Talk Show Television

I’m finally getting around to the recent discussion of Genetic Sexual Attraction on the Dr. Drew show, and what response there has been to it. The discussion certainly wasn’t balanced, but discussions often are not balanced on shows like this.

Here’s where I found the transcript for the show that aired May 10, 2012.

Dr. Drew Pinsky cited the Mistie Atkinson and Amy Sword cases, both of which involved minors.
Joining me are two women who had intimate affairs with their fathers after reuniting as adult. Carly and Julie say, what we`re calling, or has been called genetic sexual attraction, or GSA.

His phrasing implies there was sex.

Julie reunited with her genetic father last year.

PINSKY: Is there a sexual component to it now?

JULIE: Oh, there wasn`t at first.

PINSKY: But then there was?

JULIE: Well, exactly.

This implies there was sex, but I’m not sure there was.

What happened was I actually said to my husband, I said, I feel the same feelings that I felt when I fell in love with you. I feel like I`m falling in love.

So Julie was married, presumably in a marriage where monogamy was the expectation.
JULIE: No, because our daughters 3 and 4 years old at the time want to marry my husband. They come down in dresses, daddy, marry me. They have this heroic awe for their father. And so, I never got to do that with my father. I started to feel that. But I`m an adult. So I was really confused.

Julie is comparing herself, a grown married woman with children, to 4 year-old girls.

JULIE: Well, I kind of kept it to myself mostly, but, you know, I was definitely more needy. You know, I constantly wanted to talk to him. I wanted to be in his presence. I wanted to hold his hand, be under his arm and all that kind of stuff.

And what happened was there started to be some tension. I could tell that he, too, was struggling with feelings of attraction for me.

No sex mentioned.

PINSKY: Do you understand that feels a little gross?

Thinking about different sexualities feels “a little gross” to different people. For example, there as lesbians who think heterosexual sex is gross, heterosexual men who think that gay sex is gross, people who think BSDM is gross, people who think swinging is gross.

— — —

Saturday, May 12, 2012

Happy Mother's Day

Happy Mother's Day to all mothers out there, especially mothers who face discrimination, persecution, and even prosecution for loving one or more other adults.

We're making progress. Hang in there and continue to care for your loved ones.

If you have an interesting Mother's Day you think our readers will want to hear about, do tell! Sons and daughters.... any special plans?
— — —

Extortion Attempt Against Stevie Wonder Thwarted

In another example of why laws and prejudices against consensual incest are harmful and can be used as political or criminal tools, it has hit the news that a man attempted to extort money from Stevie Wonder by claiming (falsely, apparently) to be the child of an incestuous relationship between Wonder and his sister.

People would be less likely to try this if laws against consenting adults having sex were repealed in more places.
— — —

Friday, May 11, 2012

Pejudice Makes For Poor Arguments Against Marriage Equality

An entry from a while back on a couple experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction has received much attention in recent days, and has attracted many comments. Some comments are supportive. But it is the other comments that are so revealing. For example, someone will claim consanguinamory should be criminalized because of Discredited Argument #18, but soon we see that their real issue is personal disgust and is not really about birth defects. And, of course, there are the comments from people who simply express their disgust.

What we see is that there is no good reason to deny consanguineous lovers their rights to share love, sex, residence, and marriage.
— — —

Thursday, May 10, 2012

Ghana’s Gotta Get With It

Here’s yet another report of consenting adults being prosecuted and persecuted for simply loving each other.

The Ashanti region town of Juaso near Tepa has been thrown into a state of shock following a revelation that a 27 year old farmer has been having sex with his mother.

The act which is said to be consensual has allegedly been going on for months.
One act for months?  They’re probably sore!

They have been fined by the traditional council to pacify the gods for the incestuous act.

Oh yes, to pacify the gods, and not at all to fatten the wallets of nosey finger-waggers.

An eyewitness account told Joy News the ‘affair’ has been going on for six months.

They let someone else watch, and now that person repays them by being a rat? Or was the person a peeper and a rat?

He named the man as Yaw Berko and the woman, Ama Osabimaa, 47.

The traditional council has confirmed the incident and imposed a fine of ¢100.00 as well as a bottle of gin and two sheep on them.

No folks, this isn’t from The Onion. I would be laughing if I wasn’t offended by the intrusion into the love lives of consenting adults.

In all fairness to Ghana, many other countries also have and enforce stupid laws against consanguinamory. That should change. An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults. Consanguinamory is everywhere, and “the gods” haven’t reacted negatively.

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Where to Talk About Genetic Sexual Attraction

Genetic Sexual Attraction has been in the news and on television lately, so I offer this reminder for people who want to talk about Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA).

Unfortunately, people happily in GSA relationships are less likely to participate in online discussions or appear in the media than people who are unhappy or whose relationships have ended...

"Let's see... hang out with my lover, or argue with strangers online.... hmmmm."

"Sure, I'll appear on your talk show or in your news report, increasing my risk of being prosecuted, being persecuted by hateful bigots, being fired, having the person I love most taken away from me..."

Still, if you want help or just want to discuss Genetic Sexual Attraction, the two best places to go are... - FREE, open, and welcoming to any respectful person looking for help, support, or information.

Reunion GSA Yahoo Group - Free, but back to being private. You have to ask to join, and you may not be allowed.

You might also want to check out Kindred Spirits, which is a free discussion forum for any consanguinamorous relationships, whether initiated through GSA or not. Advice may be offered through private message, but is generally not offered in the open discussions.

In the future, after hateful laws are repealed, it will be easier to find help and support. Until then, we have to deal with things as they are.

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Wednesday, May 9, 2012

What Part of "Consenting Adults" Do Some People Not Get?

Every once in a while I'll get a comment from someone accusing me of encouraging the abuse of children, or actually abusing children myself.

Nowhere, ever, have I done anything like any of that, or anything of the sort.

I have made it clear, over and over again, in multiple places on this blog, that my support of legal protections and recognition for consanguinamorous lovers pertains to consenting adults.

An adult preying on a child is not about love or sex, it is assault and abuse.

One person, regardless of age, assaulting another person is not consensual sex.

It is insulting to compare lovemaking and recreational sex between consenting adults to preying on children.

I argue for laws against adult consensual sex be repealed or overturned. I do not argue of the age of consent to be lowered.

An adult... ADULT... should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting... CONSENTING... adults.
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Tuesday, May 8, 2012

Most Children of Consanguinamorous Parents Are Fine

Thanks to Victoria Cuthbert at for bringing us this article reminding us that so much of what we hear about children from consanguinamorous parents is misinformed.
Consanguineous marriage, or marriage to a blood relative, is a custom that has been popularly practised in almost every part of the world at some point of time. Though in the West it has largely grown out of the culture and become stigmatised, in many other countries, like Oman, it continues to remain a valued social custom.

In fact, according to Professor Alan Bittles, a professor of community genetics at Edith Cowan University and research leader in the centre for comparative genomics at Murdoch University, both in Australia, it is estimated that ten per cent of marriages worldwide are consanguineous. In regions where consanguineous marriage is more popular such as the Middle East, North Africa and Central and South Asia, the number can reach over 50 per cent, and in countries like Qatar and the UAE it is said to be on the rise.
Consanguinamory is not rare, nor is it against tradition.
While some politicians, media and experts in the field have warned against the greatly increased health risk of consanguineous marriage, many scientists claim they are vastly misguided, and at the same time completely disregarding the social significance of the practice.

“There is a misunderstanding spread by the media that there is a risk from consanguineous marriages, but this is actually very minimal,” said Dr Allal Ouhtit, head of the department of genetics at Sultan Qaboos University (SQU).

Though current research estimates that there is double the risk of mortality and disability for a child if its parents are first cousins, this only increases from about two to four per cent - still leaving around a 96 per cent chance that the child will be healthy.

“Even still, we are not sure because research on consanguinity has bought conflicting results. All the studies have been done in the West and were probably not well controlled. That's why we are trying to set research up here,” added Dr Allal.

“Our findings have shown that the health risks associated with consanguineous marriage have been exaggerated, largely due to flawed research,” agreed Prof Alan , who visited Oman recently to participate in the International Conference on Consanguinity. “Research has often failed to allow for non-genetic factors that can adversely influence health outcomes including poverty, poor maternal health, very young maternal age and short intervals between births.
May the good Doctors get some good research going. Too many people out there express ignorant statements about this, and it hurts people. Most children born to close relatives are healthy. We all know some, whether we're aware of who those children are, or not. You don't have to go far back in most family trees to find consanguineous parents. Whether or not to have children and how is for people to decide for themselves, and anyone concerned should get genetic screening and counseling.
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Monday, May 7, 2012

Holding Hands is Better Than Slapping Them

There's a of thought-provoking and stimulating material to be found on, and perhaps no other social networking or blog site illustrates more clearly that those who want to box everyone's identity and relationships into narrow little tracks are losing their grip on the people. Here's just another example.
I would like to address something i’ve noticed that exists within every community, but seems especially rife within alternative communities such as the kink community, the polyamory community, the queer community, etc. There is this whole strain of self-policing which questions people’s identities or abilities to identify as part of that community because of actions which they do or do not take part in.

To explain further, I am considering actions here to be voluntary acts that are deemed “neccessary” by some in a community, which creates self-policing and exclusion. Take, for example, sexual acts. Everybody has their own preferences. Likes, dislikes. Things they will only do in a relationship, or things they need to get off. I want to stress that there is no right or wrong preferences, only individual needs.
Solidarity, not division, is the way to go. We don't define another person's identity; only that person knows their feelings. We can support and respect each other, even though we don't feel the same things or may not even understand one another's feelings.

How silly do these sound (and yes, I’ve really heard/seen them said more than once):
  • No submissive has the right to say no! If you say no to something, you’re not really submissive!
  • If you don’t go down on a girl, you’re not really a lesbian. (Insert oral sex act/ sexual orientation as you will). 
  • Feminists don’t shave their body hair! If you shave your body hair you are clearly not a feminist. 
  • You can’t really be into BDSM because you don’t mix it with sexual activity, and BDSM is about sex.
  • How can you consider yourself polyamorous if you only have one partner? Polyamory means you have to have multiple partners so if you only have one you are not poly.
  • You don’t look queer because you are too femme/straight looking. 
It's a very well written entry. Let's not pick at each other over what we do or do not do; let's join together in standing up for the rights of every one of us to be who we are and do what we want to do, and love who we love how we want to love them.
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Playing Mistie

I have already shared my thoughts on this sad case of what could very well be Genetic Sexual Attraction. There have been many news articles all over the world about it, probably because it involves an attractive woman arrested for a “sex crime.” But there hasn’t really been much new reported in these articles.

Todd Rigney reported at
Most of the stories you read about parents reconnecting with their long lost children are heartwarming tales filled with teary reunions, warm hugs, and a fair amount of happiness. However, every once in a while you get exposed to the dark side of such scenarios, leaving the reader to ponder the eternal question, “What in the hell is wrong with people these days?” Prepare yourself accordingly, as this is one such story that is sure to put your gag reflex to the test.
I wonder if Rigney would write this about a 32 year-old and a 16 year-old stranger in a state where 16-year-olds can legally consent?

Toyin Owoseje covered the news for
The teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, reportedly had no contact with his mother for 15 years until she tracked him down on Facebook in 2011.

The teenager lived with his father, who had been granted sole custody following the couple's divorce, and it is not known when Atkinson began to have personal contact with her son.
I would be very surprised if this wasn’t GSA.

This is how put it

Atkinson was charged on March 2 with four felonies: oral copulation of a minor, contact with a minor for a sexual offense, "sending harmful matter" to a minor, and, the big one, committing incest.

I see… statutory rape is no big deal… but “incest,” which can involve loving, consensual sex, is. Nice priorities.

The father of Atkinson's biological son has since obtained a restraining order against her.

He has full custody of the teenager. Obviously.
Obviously? Is he the guy who got a 15 year-old pregnant 17 years ago? Oh, that’s right. doesn’t think that’s a big deal.

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Sunday, May 6, 2012

Thanks For the Support

I believe thanks are due to BuIletForMyVaIentine for this video showing solidarity...
It is important to keep in mind that while being LGBT, polyamorous, or consanguinamorous are three different things, there are people who are in two or three of those categories, there are people each each category that support people in the other two, and there are people in each category with their own prejudices against people in one or both of the other categories. We should overcome prejudice and all work together for relationship rights and full marriage equalit so that an adult, regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation, is free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults.
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Theatre Review

When it comes to depicting reality and themes found in real life, especially things the powerful try to suppress, the literary and theatre worlds usually lead the way, at least on the English speaking world. Television shows and movies take fewer risks. I found another example of this thanks to this theatre review by Elisabeth Mahoney at She gives "Pornography" four out of five stars.
In this exhilarating take on Simon Stephens' play set in London in the days encompassing Live 8, the Olympic bid success and the 7/7 bombings, they once again deliver highly original, exciting theatre.

The play presents certain challenges. It is written with an open structure and no character names, to be played by any number of actors, and to start and stop wherever the director chooses. What we see, in fragments and streams of consciousness, are transgressions: a schoolboy sexually obsessed with a teacher; incestuous siblings; a woman getting her own back at her boss. One of the transgressors is a 7/7 bomber, his story blending with the others in a mix strikingly without moral judgment or hierarchy.
Our arts and media should tackle things we experience in our lives. Consanguinamory is a reality for many people, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be portrayed.

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Friday, May 4, 2012

A Peek Into a Bit of LGBT and Poly History

Margie Adam interviewed Jeanne Cordova, tied to the local launch of Cordova's new book When We Were Outlaws, A Memoir of Love & Revolution. There are some excerpts of the interview at
Jeanne Cordova with Margie Adam and Barbara Price at Montclair Women’s Clutural Arts Club. PHOTO COURTESY OF JEANNE CORDOVA

Margie: You were also engaged in a passionate exploration of non-monogamy, the radical feminist theory and personal practice - in intense love relationships with other lesbians who took their autonomy and self-respect just as seriously as you did. At the same time you were clarifying your butch self in the midst of relentless pressure from lesbian feminists to move away from the either-or butch-femme identities toward androgyny.

Two different and vast subjects of interest - both connected to radical feminist theory. How have your thoughts and feelings evolved since the time in which the memoir is set - the mid-seventies? Are you married? Are you monogamous?

Jeanne: I’m domesticated --with a life partner for two decades, but I am not theoretically, monogamous. I do still believe that non-monogamy, or as we say today, polyamory, is the most natural state for lesbians. But I can’t seem to find a femme that agrees with me! Including the one I’m domesticated to. I don’t know how she feels politically because the mere mention of this topic never gets to a conversational level in our house. But personally, she doesn’t agree with me.

Seriously though, my views on this issue have not changed much since the early years of feminism, but I have seen that many queer dykes today, both the boomer generation and on down to Millennials, have continued to invent similar styles of living, such as polyamory. So while I’m here in the capital of polyamory, I’d like to point to it and non-monogamy as being very similar. So I would like to pose this question to all those here and elsewhere:

It is a very informative look at the history of some civil rights issues that still have to be won and defended in much of the country today.
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Thursday, May 3, 2012

Adult Adoption Until Full Marriage Equality?

Stephanie L. Moll, Lawrence Brody, and Melissa Fernley wrote about adult adoption, citing and discussing the John Goodman case.

Yes, adult adoption is possible, and is allowed in many states across the country, including Missouri, although a few states require some sort of previous familial relationship. The result of such adoptions is not a traditional parent-child relationship, but rather a legal relationship that creates the same rights and responsibilities as would the adoption of a child. Adopted adults also become heirs of the adopting parent, although some states restrict the extent to which they can inherit.
Of interest to my readers is this...
In states where same-sex marriage is still prohibited, some same-sex couples have attempted to legally legitimize their relationship by having one partner adopt the other. This gives them rights approaching those of a married couple, such as insurance benefits, family housing options, and inheritance rights.

Some state statutes prohibit members of a same-sex couple from adopting each other, or their courts have decided not to recognize such adoptions. Still, many states do recognize legitimizing a same-sex relationship as a valid reason to adopt. However, adoption of a same-sex partner is falling out of favor, as many same-sex couples are now focusing their efforts on attempts at achieving marriage equality.
It could be something for anyone who is denied the freedom to marry to consider; LGBT people, polyamorous people (in triads or triangles, for example, perhaps there could be one legal marriage and also an adoption), and maybe even with consanguinamorous relationships. Until we get full marriage equality, some couples and polycules may want to get whatever legal arrangements they can. A good lawyer can help any lovers mull over legal possibilities.
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Wednesday, May 2, 2012

Let's Keep Good Traditions, Dump the Bad Ones

Richard Feinberg, a professor of anthropology at Kent State University who has a long list of accomplishments and experience, asks at, "Defending 'Traditional' Marriage? Whose Definition? What Tradition?"

After years of argument a half-dozen states and the District of Columbia have legalized same-sex marriage. 
 They have legalized the limited, monogamous same-sex freedom to marry. More places will follow.

Despite the claim that marriage is a bond between one man and one woman, polygamy (defined broadly as plural marriage) is extremely common and was even more so in the past. The most frequently encountered variant is polygyny, the marriage of one husband to multiple wives. Often, the co-wives are sisters, an arrangement known as sororal polygyny. Less common variants are polyandry (one wife, multiple husbands) and polygynandry (an arrangement that involves multiple spouses of both sexes).
Marriage can take on many forms.
Among the world's known cultures, most have accepted polygyny as legitimate. Many have actively preferred it. It is far from some quaint, exotic practice; indeed, it is well-established in the Bible. 
It's... traditional.
Seen in an anthropological light, gay marriage is one variant in a remarkably diverse set of practices. Same-sex marriages are not exactly commonplace in the mosaic of world cultures. Neither are they absent from "traditional" societies, however, despite the claims of those who argue for a legal ban on same-sex marriages.

Reality isn't kind to prejudice.

It doesn't matter what is traditional. Slavery is an excellent example of something very, very traditional. What matters is... are we going to have equal rights for all adults, regardless of race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation? Some traditions have denied marriage (or even the right to just live) to interracial couples, gays and lesbians, polyamorous people, and consanguineous lovers, and those traditions are the kinds of traditions that should be left in the ash heap of history. Good traditions, we can keep.
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Dargers in the News Again

Simon Tomlinson at features heroes of this blog, the polygynous Dargers. Joe Darger is married to twin sisters Vicki and Valerie, and their cousin Alina.
Mutiple marriages: Joe Darger poses with his three wives, twin sisters Valerie (centre) and Vicki (right), and their cousin Alina (left)

In the eyes of their Fundamentalist Mormon religion, all three women are equally married to Joe.

They each have their own bedroom, and Joe alternates between the three rooms each evening.

Valerie, who works in the family cleaning business with Alina, 43, said: 'The fact that Joe was married to Vicki didn't bother me at all. I took it as a sign he would be a good husband for me as well.

'As teenagers, Vicki and I liked some of the same guys. I thought it might even be good if we married the same man.'
Some people think polygyny is about controlling and abusing women, but Vicki and Alina were both aware and agreeable when they were dating and then marrying Joe at the same time, and this it was Vicki and Alina who encouraged Joe to pursue Valerie.

The article includes a side-panel on the history of Mormon Polygamy.
The three wives and their husband have co-written a book 'Love Times Three', and some of their adult children also contributed to the story.

'We hope that by talking about our way of life, polygamy will step closer to being an accepted lifestyle and the laws that criminalise it might change,' said Joe.
An adult should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, protected from prosecution, bullying, and discrimination.

There's also a short video to go along with the article, as well as several other pictures.
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Good News For Those Experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction

As you may remember, Barb Gonyo’s, which had a long-running discussion forum on Genetic Sexual Attraction (GSA), was euthanized and some of the organs were harvested and placed behind a paywall at a new location tied to a blog.

Now, a new forum moderated and populated by others who had participated in Gonyo’s discussion forum is now online, and this free forum welcomes all who have experienced GSA or are experiencing GSA.

If you’ve met a genetic relative for the first time, or after being separated since at least one of you was a child, and you have experienced a strong attraction to that person that includes physical or sexual attraction or has resulted in sexual affection or arousal, you are likely experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction. GSA is real and is a common, normal response to the circumstances involved. GSA is not an indication that anything is wrong with you or the other person. It is not wrong to have these feelings. Genetic Sexual Attraction happens in up to half of all situations in which pubescent or post-pubescent genetic relatives meet for the first time or reunite after having been separated since at least one of them was a child. (See here for more about GSA.)

Please note that the new forum is for those who are, or have experienced GSA or looking for real information on GSA, whether or not consanguinamory or consensual incest is or will be involved. It is NOT a forum for people involved in sexual relationships with, or attracted to, people they’ve grown up with, were raised by, or raised. Those people should instead go to the forum Kindred Spirits (people brought together through GSA are also welcome at KS).

There had been philosophical and personality clashes within the GSA community, which shouldn’t be surprising as there is wide diversity when it comes to human relationships and people can experience GSA regardless of creed, nationality, ethnicity, and socioeconomic background. As a result, it isn’t surprising that there is a need for this new forum. There still aren't many places to go to find help, so it is great to now have
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Tuesday, May 1, 2012

Anti-Incest Laws as Political Tools

I have noted before that laws and taboos against consanguinamory (consensual incest) have been used as a political tool for centuries. Accusing a political rival of "incest" plays upon sex-negative attitudes and "othering" someone.

Here's yet another example, this time from Kenya. It is a blind news item...
A well known politician who aspired for a big office has been forced to put his ambitions on hold. Reason? Elders from his village have threatened to go public and expose what they claim are his incestuous relations. The elders, who claim the man had sired a child with his own sister, walked into his house a month ago and told him to let go the seat or risk exposure. The man acquiesced to their demand.

We need to move past this kind of thing, and one way we will is by standing up and saying that someone's sexual orientation or the consensual sex they enjoy does not indicate they will be a bad leader. When someone tries to tear down a political candidate or tried get someone fired from their job by talking about who she or he loves, tell the bigot we are not selecting our own sexual partner, we are selecting someone to do a job, and that a person's love life, as long as they aren't being a hypocrite and trying to restrict the love lives of others, is nobody's concern.
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Polyamory in Ancient Rome

Mary Beard, Professor of Classics at the University of Cambridge, wrote about some of the the realities of daily life in ancient Rome at coincided with her BBC2 series, "Meet the Romans."

Then there was my favourite lady, Allia Potestas, an ex-slave who was given one of the chattiest tombstones of all — and who had one of the most curious domestic set-ups.

She was the centre of a menage a trois, living in domestic harmony with two men, one of whom composed her extraordinary epitaph, spending a surprising amount of time and tombstone space on her intimate features. How many modern tombstones praise the nipples of the deceased or her fastidiousness dealing with unwanted bodily hair?

Yet the giveaway as to the ordinariness underlying this set-up is revealed when he describes their daily routine. Of the three of them, it was Allia who was always up first in the morning, and always the last to bed at night. Presumably that was because she was trying to do the housework and hold down a job. The same old story!
 Yes, it is the same old story.
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