Wednesday, October 31, 2012

A Mixed Marriage

tribulations of a polyamorous kinky lady happily married to a monogamous vanilla man, while occasionally writing erotica." In this entry, she wrote about her personal polyamory manifesto.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2012

Television on the Edge?

I can't help but shake my head a little when a television show, and television critics or promotional media, present relationships between cousins as edgy. For example there's this report by Sarah Lynn at about the show EastEnders. It includes an interview with David Witts, who plays Joey Branning. Joey's cousin is Lauren Branning.

 Fans of EastEnders will no doubt be aware that the soap is about to tackle the taboo subject of incest as cousins Lauren and Joey Branning embark on an affair after both realize – and act upon – the powerful sexual attraction between them that’s been simmering for weeks.

Just like any other relationship, right?

When asked, “Does Joey think it’s wrong to kiss his cousin?” David replied, “No. He’s in love and he’s thinking, ‘How can it be wrong to feel this way?’
That's a good thing.

And of what could be the possible fall out for the Branning family over the affair, David said, “It could tear the family apart…

“Lauren and Joey both know that so they’re being really careful about how they behave together when they’re in public.

“[But] they’re not doing anything wrong. It’s not illegal to have a relationship with your cousin and they haven’t known one another for long.

“They didn’t grow up together.”
Cousin relationships, including marriages, are an everyday thing in much of the world.

If they really want to be edgy, television show creators will respectfully depict a passionate, happy relationship between first-degree relatives, such as full or half-blood siblings, with biggest problem for the relationship being the prejudice of others. There is no shortage of real world examples, including right here on this blog. See here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.
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Monday, October 29, 2012

Politician in Zimbabwe Prosecuted Under Incest Laws

In what appears to be a more pressing matter of child support, a politician in Zimbabwe is making headlines for having consanguinamorous relationships. Of course, the headlines focus on "incest." From

A ZIMBABWEAN politician Fidelis Mhashu, whose wife left for the United Kingdom in 2003 and never came back, says he ended up in an incestuous relationship with his two nieces due to loneliness.

Both cases resulted in the birth of four children.

Mr Mhashu who is also Chitungwiza North legislator and former Minister of National Housing and Social Amenities is now facing charges of engaging in incestuous relationship under Zimbabwe traditional court system in his home area of Mhondoro.
Consensual incest should not be a crime in the first place.
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Polymory, Monogamy, and Cheating

The very helpful Charlie Glickman reminds us that "Polyamory Isn't An Alternative to Cheating"...
Polyamory isn’t an alternative to cheating, it’s an alternative to monogamy.
He goes on to explain...
You know what the alternative to cheating is? Honesty, communication, and abiding by your agreements. No matter what relationship works for you, no matter how many partners you have at any given time, the alternative to cheating is being honest with yourself and with your partner(s), and doing what you say you will.

I get that if you’re unhappy in an ostensibly monogamous relationship or if your needs aren’t being met, there can be a temptation to seek someone outside those boundaries. And you know what? People in open relationships sometimes do the same thing. After all, just because your relationship is open doesn’t necessarily mean you feel comfortable telling your partner(s) what you want, and sometimes, people cheat.
Cheating is breaking the rules, whichever rules you choose.
The only sense in which polyamory is ever "an alternative to cheating" is when someone who has tried to be monogamous, who has promised to be monogamous, but has ended up cheating, is honest with himself or herself and partner and admits monogamy isn't for them, and that they are polyamorous.... if that is indeed the case. There is a difference between a polyamorous person who has tried and failed to be monogamous and someone who is hostile or destructive to their partner, and that has expressed itself in cheating. This difference must be determined or the cheater will likely cheat even in a polyamorous relationship.

All of these issues can be dealt with better if polyamorous people are protected against discrimination. Punishing people for being polyamorous makes things worse for all, including pressuring polyamorists into make promises of monogamy.

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Friday, October 26, 2012

Bobbi Kistina and Nick Gordon Making News

Even though their relationships isn't incestuous biologically nor legally, the prejudice against consanguinamory is so ridiculous that the couple continues to fight off the "incest" label.

As my regular readers know, I would support them if they were, indeed, biological siblings. Whatever the case, we are talking about consenting adults here. That someone else finds their relationship strange should have no influence over their happiness. If they want to be together, nobody else should be able to stop them.

TECHNICAL ISSUE: Is there some reason why a YouTube video would get automatically removed from a Blogger posting? It's all Google, so I don't understand why the HTML coding for this video disappeared from here and I get to go get it again. Anyone know?
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Wednesday, October 24, 2012

Parents and Expectant Parents Discuss Polyamory, Open Relationships

Discussions pop up everywhere about topics like polyamory and open relationships. (As a reminder, "open relationships" and "polyamory" are not synonyms.) Discussions tend to help, as the more people talk, the more we see there is a diversity of needs when it comes to relationships and sexuality, and that polyamorous people or people in open relationships are not bad people or people nobody knows. They are quite often great people, gay, lesbian, bisexual, or heterosexual, who live next door in harmony with monogamists. An example is this poll and discussion at initiated by Abbey & Ethan. Here are some highlights...

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Tuesday, October 23, 2012

Another Marriage Denied Equality Under the Law

“Justher” is an attractive, 30ish homemaker whose four grandparents came to the US from Ireland. She’s from a comfortable middle-class background, raised in North Carolina but now living in Pennsylvania. She’s also a mother, via legal guardianship, to one child, and lives with her brother, who is a manufacturing management professional. Justher enjoys playing tennis, and it helps to keep her in great shape.

She was generous enough with her time and privacy to be interviewed.


FULL MARRIAGE EQUALITY: Is your brother your full blood brother? Is he younger than you, and if so, by how much? Do you have any other siblings?

Justher: Yes, my brother is my full blood brother. He’s a year and four months younger than me, and we have no other siblings.

FME: Describe your relationship with your brother. Do you live as though you are spouses? Does that include lovemaking?

Yes, my brother and I live as husband and wife, and it does include lovemaking, I see him as both my brother and lover. Those two roles are inseparable; at times he needs his sister, at other times he needs his lover and/or wife, so I fulfill both those roles in his life, just as he does the same in my life. It’s a bit hard to explain, but yes he’s my soul mate.

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Monday, October 22, 2012

Still Much Ignorance of Polyamory

Carter West writes at, which is "University of Toronto's Student Newspaper Since 1880" that "Schools shouldn't be promoting polyamory."

Just responding to that title, I want to know what is meant by "promoting?" In so far as relationships and family are discussed at school, it would be negligent of academia to deny that polyamory exists, and that some people find polyamorous relationships to be the ones in which they function best. It is destructive for schools to ignore polyamory or any other consensual adult relationships. Some students are polyamorous, even if they aren't in any relationship at all.

But it turns out that the piece is referencing the poster I blogged about that was actually attempting to depict bisexuality...

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Friday, October 19, 2012

Origins of the Incest Taboo

When someone asks why consanguinamory (consensual incest or consanguineous sex) is taboo, someone will usually provide an explanation like this one...

The reason we mate up with persons not of our own blood is to build genetic diversity and, whether we accept it or not, attempt to create more superior humans.

While I think genetic diversity is usually a good thing as long as it doesn't suppress a genetic advantage, if humans were naturally inclined to seek genetic diversity, I think we would not have seen so much segregation based on skin color and ethnicity over the years, or a taboo against interracial marriages. Even in the most progressive communites, people still often segregate themselves on the basis of skin color. Furthermore, studies have shown and experience with Genetic Sexual Attraction has shown that people are often strongly attracted to those genetically similar to them. It is prepubescent ultrafamiliarity in socialization and externally imposed taboos that often squelch such attraction.

I think it is likely that humans in the past were not aware of, or concerned with, genetic diversity because they didn't know about genes. They could see that offspring often resembled their parents, but for all they knew, that was the will of the gods or the fates.

Taboos against consanguineous sex were more likely imposed because parents, especially fathers, used the sexuality of their children to form partnerships and gain power. In patriarchal societies, daughters were traded away via arranged marriage into other families to buy favor, and sons were expected to marry for dowries and alliances and such. It was more difficult for this to happen, especially in cultures that demanded a bride marry with her virginity and have only her husband as a sexual partner, if the siblings were having sex with each other or a parent.

It was probably more about power and control, and marriage bans and laws against consensual sex are still about those things. We see that happening now, and so we have good reason to believe it happened in the past. What do you think?

See this Frequently Asked Question for more.
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Thursday, October 18, 2012

Polyamory Rising

Thanks in no small part to the Browns and their TLC television show, "Sister Wives," awareness of consensual polygamy (especially plural marriages) is increasing. The same goes for the Showtime's Polyamory show. Both shows and related media and discussion will contribute to relationship rights for poly people, including the freedom to marry and, ultimately, full marriage equality.

The Browns lead a forum at UNLV, prompting some news coverage. Here's a report from at

Kody Brown, center, is flanked by two of his four ‘Sister Wives,” Christine, at left, and Meri, at right.
There are more than 850 societies around the world that practice polygamy, and an estimated 30,000 or more plural families living in the United States, Blumer said. However, because of a negative cultural stigma and legal concerns, most plural families live largely in secrecy.

When the Brown family came out to their monogamous friends relatives some 20 years ago, it strained relationships and broke some bonds.

The Browns also suffered repercussions when their family made national headlines after "Sister Wives" first aired. Meri lost her job, Kody lost a couple of advertising clients and Robyn had a difficult time finding work.

For a couple of years, the family also faced legal prosecution. 
How ridiculous it is that people perpetuate such bigotry.

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Wednesday, October 17, 2012

A Place to Talk

Lately, it seems that I can't let a week go by without posting something from Kindred Spirits, which I consider the best forum to discuss consanguinamory. If there is a better one, I'm not aware of it.

Here is something a woman in her 20s. I have edited the typing errors. She wrote about her relationship with her brother, which didn't involve sex until they were adults, the trouble she got from one of their siblings who has some suspicions, and finding the forum...
Most psychologists say that it’s the genetic thing or mental illness or like a girl I know that’s gone back to sharing a house (as she said) with her dad when her marriage broke up after 5 years. But what we had wasn’t that. On one of the sites there were a few postings that sounded a bit like us... normal. In a few cases there was a posting about a sister and brother who loved each other. Other posters tried to get her to talk about times, places, who did what. Etc.... but all she kept posting was that she loved him (brother) in one of her postings there was the name of this site. I still don’t fully understand most of my feelings. And don’t talk about it with anyone... esp. not friends.
It's great that there is a place for siblings, parents and their adult children, aunts, uncles, nieces, and nephews, and even cousins to talk about their romantic, sexual, or spousal relationships among friends, supporters, and people who know what they are going through. If you sign up for the forum, be sure to read and follow the rules or you won't last very long.
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Tuesday, October 16, 2012

Dexter Inspires More Talk About Television Siblings


As we noted around the turn of the year, the television show "Dexter" has a plotline of interest to this blog. Over at, Dustin Rowles lists "5 TV Siblings Better Suited to Incest Plotlines than Dexter and Debra Morgan."

Have you noticed, folks? Incest is all the rage on the television these days. It’s been a major plot point in shows like “The Borgias,” “Game of Thrones,” “Boardwalk Empire,” and even the last season of a comedy, “Bored to Death.” It came out of left field at the end of last season’s “Dexter,” and it’s still bubbling beneath the surface of Dexter and Debra’s current television relationship. Will they, or won’t they?
Many adopted siblings, stepsiblings, half-siblings, and full-blood siblings (long lost or raised together) explore and experiment, or have lifelong spousal relationships, or having something between. Why shouldn't television reflect that reality?

One couple on the list?
Dean and Sam Winchester (I can only imagine the amount of fan fic already devoted to this)
I don't know about that. There is a lot!

Because of lingering prejudices and discrimination, including in the laws of many places, it can be handy plot device.

There were many comments left after this little list.
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Monday, October 15, 2012

Was Lord Byron Consanguinamorous?

We know that consaguinamory is nothing new. One of the famous possible instances from the 19th century involved Lord Byron. at writes...

Historically important books donated to the Harewood House secondhand book shop 
Books donated to a secondhand shop have cast light onto the scandalous 19th century family history of the renowned poet Lord Byron.

The volumes provide an insight in the life of Byron’s half-sister Augusta Leigh – the purported incestuous love-interest behind his departure to fight in Greece.

Augusta had seven children, one of whom, Elizabeth Medora, was thought by many to be Byron’s love-child.
Those involved in, or at least accused of, consensual incest are in some good company. Another article on this at goes into more details, and perhaps what was going on is what we now call Genetic Sexual Attraction.

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Sunday, October 14, 2012

Saturday, October 13, 2012

Reality at The Escapist

Discussions about youthful consanguineous experimentation and consanguinamory pop up in discussion forums of every sort. At, chinangel kicks off the thread with...
I have a question for The Escapist: what's your opinion on incest, and would you ever engage in it?

I am imagining this is going to turn into a flame war at some point, so hey! Let's add some fuel for that fire!

I personally have no problem with incest, whatsoever. I have a brother who I kind of crushed on when I was younger and did...stuff...with when I was younger and curious. So I really have no issues with it at all, and really can't understand what makes it 'squicky' to some.

So that's my view, your turn escapist
She's not alone, of course. A long discussion has followed. Many people spoke up as allies, and none of the anti-equality postings have invoked anything other than the usual Discredited Arguments.

So once again, we see a positive experience and no reason given as to why people shouldn't be free to be together.

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Friday, October 12, 2012

Congratulations to Bobbie Kristina Brown and Nick Gordon

Bobbi Kristina Brown and Nick Gordon plan are planning to marry. Good for them. We've taken a look in prior blog updates at how their relationship is being subject to prejudice in the news media. The latest coverage I found was from Jessica Carlson at examinercom...

Krissy's fiancé, Nick Gordon, 23, was taken in by Houston when Gordon was only 12. Houston was Gordon's godmother. Although Houston never legally adopted Gordon, Houston raised him as her own and he grew up as Krissy's older brother. Gordon's mother was allegedly forced to give him up because she could no longer care for him.
They know each other well, probably, and perhaps there is nobody else in the world better suited for each other. That they spent time in the same home does not, and should not, hinder their romance.

“I’m in love with him,” says Bobbi.

“They wanna see us fail,” she says to the camera. “I got one thing to say — you won’t.”

I hope not. Reality shows don't seem to have a great effect on relationships. May they have a blissful marriage full of joy and love. Extending the ridiculous bigotry against consanguineous relationships, which is bad enough, to relationships like this one shows just how irrational and arbitrary taboos against consensual adult relationships can be.
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Thursday, October 11, 2012

Harvard and Incest

Students at Harvard are using the "I" word metaphorically and it is causing the "incest = rape" folks and the sex-negative types to wail and gnash their teeth. Obviously, it isn't really incest to have sex with someone in the same dorm as you... unless they also happen to be close relatives. See this opinion from Samantha Berstler at
I get it. In the idiom of current college students, “incest” has come to mean romance among hall-mates or house-mates. Kirkland House’s annual dance, IncestFest, is a catchy name designed to celebrate a saccharinely close-knit house. It’s easy to become habituated to the name, lulled into prioritizing the slang meaning of “incest” over its formal definition.

But let’s talk about incest for a minute. Actual incest.
Good idea.

But then she goes into abuse/assault of children, citing a statistic that 34.2 percent of the abused children are attacked by a family member. And here's where the problem is with calling both abuse/assault of children and consensual sex between adults "incest," and why I call the latter consanguinamory.

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Coming Out Day 2012

Life can be tough for someone whose identity and orientation doesn’t fit in to a little heterosexual, monogamous, "traditional"-gender-role box or whose relationship doesn’t meet the local sex police’s approved standards. Sometimes, a person or the people in a relationship want to come out of the closet. Sometimes they need to come out. For some of these people, it is a little less difficult if they do so as part of a communal event, such as National Coming Out Day.

National Coming Out Day is TODAY, Thursday, October 11. Here’s the official website, at least for the US. There is much helpful information there, regardless of where you live.

The more people that come out, the more the others around them will realize they do know and appreciate people who are LGBT, or polyamorous, or consanguinamorous, and that such people and relationships deserve equality. So coming out helps progress.

On the other hand, it is understandable that any given person, couple, triad, or quad decides to stay in the closet for now. There’s still so much hate, so much prejudice and persecution, and even unjust laws that hinder the life and love of people who are good citizens and just want to be themselves. I support the decision of anyone who believes they need to be reserved for now for the sake of their safety and family.

The decision to come out is yours. Do you want to come out, and to whom? Your friends? Your family? Your coworkers? Your classmates? Your neighbors? Your crush? The whole world?

Also, if someone comes out to you, the decision to be an ally is yours. If your classmate, coworker, neighbor, friend, parent, child, or sibling comes to you and says they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, polyamorous, or in a consanguinamorous relationship, what will you do? Will you choose love and acceptance?

Even if you are heterosexual, monogamous, and nonconsanguinamorous, you may want to come out as an ally for full marriage equality. That alone can take courage, but it helps.

If you are planning to come out, or you do come out, please feel free to share your experience here by commenting.
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Wednesday, October 10, 2012

Kissing Cousins Are Hardly a Scandal

marlene ross.jpg

It appears that, like so many other times through history, someone's sex life and the incest stigma are once again being used by political opponents.

We're rapidly approaching an election here in the US (actually, early voting is underway in some places), and in addition to the Presidential race and all of the Senate and House of Representative races, there are many, many other state and local offices subject to the election. It can get overwhelming and I especially feel sorry for people here who are not allowed to vote but have to endure so much noise.

An ongoing story out of Florida caught my attention. A week ago, Chris Joseph had a blog entry at with the headline "Marlene Ross, Boynton Beach Commissioner, Sent Nude Pictures to Cousin, Report Says."

My initial response: So what??? If an adult sends nude pictures to another adult, why is that anyone else's business, unless we're talking about criminal harassment? In addition, it should make no difference that the recipient was her cousin.

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Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Brothers and Sisters

Almost on a weekly basis, I find something at the Kindred Spirits forum I want to quote here. Kindred Spirits is my favorite forum for discussing consanguinamory, consanguineous relationships, and consensual sex (incest) between close relatives. The moderators run a tight ship, but it's a pleasure cruise if you stick to the rules and are interested in the subject matter (or a participant.) This is a place where pleasant, friendly people get together to talk about their lives, relationships, and partners, and in doing so, they demonstrate that they are the people you meet every day. They could be your neighbors. They are not some emotionally dysfunctional hermits; they are intelligent, warm, and quite often attractive, and many of them have a love and bond with their partners for which most people strive.

It is a travesty that most of them have to hide their love... hide from those who would demand their prosecution, from those who would fire them, from those who would disown them.

As one brother wrote...
my sister and I were left alone a lot because of my parents jobs. Mom worked 2nd shift at a hospital and dad was an over-the-road trucker. From the moment my sister was born, all I ever heard was "take care of [sister]". As she got older all she ever heard was "take care of brother". Needless to say we grew up being very close. Ours was a natural transition from siblings to lovers. Cherish your relationship. Embrace it. Enjoy it! Sissy and I have NO regrets and to this day, 40 years later, we are closer than any siblings I know.

In the same discussion, a woman I've quoted on this blog before added...
Our relationship was a bit different, even though i was the older of the two of us by a year and a few months, my brother always looked out for and took care of me, so as we grew older i naturally gravitated toward him, and started to see him as more than a brother and more as the man in my life, and wanted him to see me as the woman in his life, well we were hardly a man and woman, just teens, but i wanted/needed him to look at me as a woman, his woman, and his alone, going from siblings to lovers came pretty naturally to us, with a little from me of course
Some people can't stand their siblings. Some people hate their siblings, fight with their siblings their whole lives. Other people get along on some level with their siblings. And some people have a consanguinamorous, even spousal relationship with their siblings. In so many places in the world, it is perfectly legal to hate your sibling, shun your sibling, and never see your sibling, but in many places, it is still illegal to love your sibling in the way you both want, even though you are consenting adults. We need to change that sooner rather than later. Adults should not have to hide their love for each other.

Please note: If you sign up at Kindred Spirits, read and follow the rules or they'll kick you right out.
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Monday, October 8, 2012

Consanguineous Marriages Dissed on Breaking Amish

At, Nannette Richford reports on the latest episode of "Breaking Amish" on TLC...
Rebecca commented about the prevalence of incest in the Amish community. When questioned, she explained that she was talking about marrying first and second cousins, supposedly a common practice in her community.
There are some countries and a little over half of US states where the bigotry against marriage equality extends to preventing heterosexual first cousins from marrying, but there are many places where heterosexual marriage between first cousins is legal and common. There are a few places in the US where same-gender first cousins can marry. I'm not aware of any place where second cousins (if they are heterosexual) are denied marriage. Smearing marriages between first cousins and between second cousins is ignorant.

The article notes...

In light of the alleged evidence that appears to support that the show “Breaking Amish” is fake, viewers must weigh the truth of any statements made by the cast, including their accounts of the sexual lives of the Amish.
Everything on television, including "reality" shows, should not be simply assumed to be true. Participants on shows may say things that aren't true, or embellish. It is something to keep in mind about television in general.

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Sunday, October 7, 2012

An Example of How Anti-Equality Hurts Bystanders

An advice column in Kenya, written by Phlip Kitoto, printed several letters, leading off with this one...

Hi Philip,
My wife is secretive and reserved. We got married three years ago. We have no children but she has had three miscarriages. When we were in college, my wife’s older brother used to send her love messages almost every night and this caused a lot of conflict between us.
She said her brother only wanted to ruin our relationship. The trend continued until I reported the issue to their mother, other brothers, and sister, after which he changed to late night calls.
What is surprising is that four years ago, my wife had a child with the brother who used to send her romantic messages. She only told me about the child in March of this year, but claimed that the boy’s father had died shortly after he was born
What should I do because her niece, who lives with us, has confirmed to me that the boy was fathered by my wife’s brother? The child is currently living with us and I am very stressed.
Maybe it's a cultural thing, but tf the letter-writer had a problem with how his wife-to-be was handling the situation with her brother, the letter-writer should have broken it off with her, rather than complaining to everyone else in the family. That being said, it appears the woman involved married the letter-writer under false pretenses. Since others knew, the truth as bound to come out. Either the relationship between brother and sister was over, or it continues.

If it was over, she should have explained that and said that her brother was having a difficult time moving on. The letter-writer could either accept her past or move on. If he couldn't accept her past, it would be better if he did move on so that she could find someone who could accept her.

If it continues, as implied by the ongoing secrecy, the ideal thing would be to explain that it was still going on, and the letter-writer could have either accepted that he was going to be legally married to a woman whose heart would first belong to someone else, or moved on.

The problem is, the circumstances are not ideal. People face discrimination, bullying, even prosecution for being in consanguinamorous relationships. As a result, most people keep those relationships a secret from everyone or all but a handful of people, and sometimes other people are unknowingly used as "beards," as could be happening to this letter-writer. This also still happens with gays and lesbians living in places where they can't be open about their sexual orientation. If we simply supported the rights of an adult, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, to share love, sex, residence, and marriage with any consenting adults, everyone would be better off.

So, while she married under false pretenses one way or another, I do not judge her because ridiculous prejudices and bigotries put her in a very difficult position.

Thankfully, the columnist did not tell the letter-writer to rat them out to law enforcement.
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Saturday, October 6, 2012

Review of Play That Includes Sibling Experimentation

A theatre review at by reports that in Fireface...

Growing up is hard to do in Fireface

Alas. It is not to be, because what takes over our quirky coming-of-age drama is a dramatic story of pyromania and some sort of quest for our two teenagers to experience life through pushing boundaries (lighting fires, enjoying nearly getting burned alive). Kurt (Rupert Simonian) transforms from spotty, petulant teenage boy into crazed burner of buildings, sweeping his corruptible sister with him. There’s a gleefully hilarious incest story which derives its comedy from its very serious presentation about a frankly (we hope) ridiculous scenario where brother and sister explore sexuality a bit too closely together.
I can't speak to the specific scenario presented the play, but some siblings do experiment in life, and there's nothing wrong with that in and of itself, and nothing ridiculous about it. Any parent who thinks rationally about it instead of letting prejudices rule their mind would find pyromania in their teenagers much more concerning than those teenagers exploring their sexuality in a safe, known environment with someone they know and love.

Fireface is on at the Young Vic until the 20 October. Tickets £12.50
Theatre and media should reflect that reality that consanguinamory is a part of life for some people.
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Thursday, October 4, 2012

Discussions About Consanguinamory Pop Up Everywhere

Discussions about consanguinamory (consensual incest) pop up everywhere, which I think is good. The more people talk about it, the more people will see that there is no good reason for continued criminalization and discrimination, and the more people will find out that it is common enough that they know someone who is, or has been, involved.

In this instance, Nerfherder, who may or may not be scruffy-looking, started a discussion at by citing a well-written essay at this blog noted a while back.

Many people offered qualified support of freedom for consenting adults. Then evilstebunny added...   .
Exactly, in some cultures a bare ankle is considered taboo yet I know two gay brothers who regularly have sex with each other in threesomes. People should stop worrying about what others do and focus on their own ugly issues.
copacetic posted information and pictures of the Elijah and Milo Peters.

The anti-equality responses were all weak versions of the Discredited Arguments.

The more it is talked about, the better. There are real people hurt by bigotry against consanguinamory.
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Wednesday, October 3, 2012

Still No Good Reason to Criminalize Consanguinamory

Consanguinamory (consensual incest) has been a topic of discussion in New Zealand media lately. At, the Official Magazine of the University of Canterbury Students' Association, there was a written "pro" and "con." On the side of decriminalizing consanguinamory was Tim Bain...
Let's start with choice. Relationships are about the worst possible place for the government to get involved. Governments are terrible at knowing what makes people happy and what they need in terms of their sex life. It's a pretty basic tenet of our society that unless we're hurting someone else, or hurting ourselves badly, we should be able to do what we like.

Incest falls into this category. 

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Katrina Yates Needs to Mind Her Own Business

Nicola Yates began an affair with her biological father after tracing him through the internet eight years agoIt has been over a year since we've heard anything about Andrew Butler and Nicola Yates, who faced bigotry and all kinds of mistreatment because they were in love. Now Katrina Yates is back in the news complaining that she thinks Andrew and Nicola are still in love. Here's the latest report at
Katrina Yates was heartbroken when she discovered that her daughter Nicola had embarked on an affair with Katrina's ex-husband and Nicola's biological father after tracing him in secret almost eight years ago.
Katrina picked Andrew to marry, have sex with, and have children with. He was attractive to her. They have long since divorced. Why is it a problem that another woman is attracted to him? Nicola was placed in this situation, in part, by Katrina. Nicola did not choose her parents or the circumstances of their relationship. Nicola and Andrew are experiencing Genetic Sexual Attraction, which is a normal reaction to the circumstances. Law enforcement officials, and Katrina, should stay out of the situation. Andrew and Nicola are adults who should be free love each other as they want.
Nicola and her father Andrew Butler spent years living together as boyfriend and girlfriend and have been to court twice charged with having sex with an adult relative after Katrina reported their inappropriate relationship.

Katrina is behaving like a jealous, bitter rat. The relationship is not inappropriate and they aren't hurting anyone. Katrina is the one being disgusting by throwing her daughter under the bus.
Last year Andrew was finally jailed, but after her mother wrote a pleading letter to the judge Nicola was given a suspended sentence and her and her family started the painful process of trying to rebuild their relationship.

The best thing she can do for her daughter now is stop talking in the media about this and let law enforcement officials do more important things than imprison consenting adults for having sex.
Nicola moved in with her younger sister Natalie and things were going well.

But in January this year Andrew was released and Nicola suddenly disappeared, cancelling her phone number, deleting her Facebook contacts and cutting off all contact with her family.
It wouldn't have to be that way if they were supportive of the relationship, rather than hostile.
Today Katrina and her younger daughter Natalie appeared on This Morning to discuss Nicola's betrayal and why they fear that she has gone on the run with her father again.

Her betrayal? I don't see Nicola going on television to talk about Natalie's love life or Katrina's love life.

Every time an article like this is printed, the finger-waggers comment to judge people for being in love with each other. Makes me wonder what kind of sex life (if any) they have, and what other people would say about their sex lives if they knew about them. Consenting adults should be free to share love, sex, residence, and marriage. Don't like it? Then don't do it.

Here's something I wrote recently about how "Genetic Sexual Attraction" is not a synonym for "incest."

If you are in a situation like this and need help, maybe you can find some. If you are a friend or family member of someone who may be in a situation like this, please read this.

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Tuesday, October 2, 2012

We Get Angry Letters

I get comments here on the blog and via email from people who thank me for getting them to see the issues a new way, or expressing in words what they were seeing in their minds, or letting them know that they are not alone in their love.

This isn't one of those.

"Anonymous" left a comment on my Discredited Arguments page.

Did Anon address the text of that page?


Anon instead wrote the following, edited only to protect the delicate eyes of some of my readers from words some of them have a difficult time reading...

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Americans Voting on Marriage

In the US, four states will have votes on the limited same-gender freedom to marry on November 6. If you are eligible and a resident of Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, or Washington, make sure you are registered to vote (especially if you've moved since the last time you voted) and make sure you do vote. None of these votes are about full marriage equality, but more freedom to marry is better than less.

Also, make sure you support candidates who are more friendly to relationship rights for all consenting adults.

The image comes from this Facebook page. Use that page to stay informed and updated.

I haven't been able to update here as much as I would have liked over the last few days, but I'm still here.
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